#17 – Philippe Simard

#17 – Philippe Simard

April 1st, 2025

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Announcer: Welcome to the LIDAR Magazine Podcast, bringing measurement, positioning and imaging technologies to light. This event was made possible thanks to the generous support of rapidlasso, producer of the LAStools software suite.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Welcome to LIDAR magazine and the LIDAR magazine podcasts. My name is Stewart Walker, and I’m the managing editor of LIDAR magazine. My guest today is Dr. Philippe Simard, Chief Executive Officer of SimActive. Philippe, we’re delighted to have you on board, and it’s a great pleasure to be talking to you. Thank you for finding time.

Philippe Simard: Yeah, thank you Stewart. I really appreciate the opportunity to come and discuss mapping with you today.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Well, most listeners will be familiar with SimActive. But in any case, I’ll set the scene very briefly, and then Philippe will fill in a lot of detail as we go along. SimActive is a supplier of photogrammetric software. It was founded in 2003. It’s headquartered in Montreal in Canada. Many listeners will know the name of the company’s flagship product, Correlator3D, and there are thousands of licenses in use in over 100 countries. So in a few minutes we’re going to find out more about SimActive.

Maybe I should mention, in 2023, in fact in June of that year, to honor the 20th anniversary of SimActive, we posted a short article on the LIDAR magazine webcast by associate editor Angus Stocking. And that article was entitled: SimActive: the Ferrari of Photogrammetric Innovation. So that’s on the website, and I’m sure we’ll come back to that topic in due course. So Philippe, tell us about your early years. You were born and raised in Canada and then earned degrees in electrical engineering at McGill University in Montreal. Is that right?

Philippe Simard: That’s correct. So I was raised in the country that’s 300 miles northeast from Montreal, and I come from a family of entrepreneurs. So the great grandfather had started a business in the clothing, retail industry. And then the grandfather took over, the uncle took over. And when it came to our generation no one was really interested. But we did have this interest of entrepreneurship, and I guess that’s where the interest came from.

So I moved to Montreal to study. I did a bachelor, master’s and PhD at McGill University. The master’s and PhD was in conjunction with the Department of National Defence. They were developing a system for helping helicopter pilots to land in whiteout/brownout conditions, what they call snow going up and dirt. I did the PhD in computer vision, and I came across I guess through these applications mapping. So my background is not directly in mapping.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Yes, it’s interesting that I had a podcast quite recently with Steven Woolven from Trimble Applanix, and the same question came up. How did you get into geospatial? And it was related in some way to PhD work. So there’s an interesting parallel there. But I’m also intrigued, how did you come to realize that there was a market for software for digital photogrammetry? Because you must have been thinking about this in the early years of this century. And I was in that field then. I transitioned from Leica Geosystems to BAE Systems in 2004. So at that time there was really a hoard of active players in the market. There were the Canadian companies DVP and ISM. There were big players like Intergraph, BAE Systems, Leica Geosystems, Inpho in Germany. There were players like KLT in the United States, (sounds like: Rakour) in Russia, Virtuoso and others in China. Just an enormous number of players that were already fielding products. So you decided to get into that market. You were a start up. You were competing in this really torrid marketplace. And yet your website says you were profitable from day one. You must have had something ready to go.

Philippe Simard: Well, what happened is that the Canadian Army here, they were looking for simpler software. So as you told, yes, there were a number of solutions out there. The Canadian Forces had this mission in Afghanistan where they were basically flying the whole country. And what they told us is that it was taking them six months to get the photogrammetry people trained on one or several of the products you mentioned.

And then they would be there for six months, and they would come back. So they thought the overhead and training and stuff was too much, and they wanted us to – so they gave us almost from day one a big contract to develop an easier, faster system that they could deploy within – basically within days with someone who wouldn’t have that much training in photogrammetry.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Yes, I do remember that from my days in the defense contractor. The ongoing challenge of the fact that the men and women operating the work stations were rotating and changed jobs quite often. And therefore as you say, training becomes a huge challenge, and if you can shorten that, I think you have a winner.

Philippe Simard: Correct. And so you couple that with – if you recall, until the – I think the last traditional film camera was retired around 2013, at least in the US, or at least USGS stopped doing these calibration reports for them, if I recall. So in between from the early 2000s to 2015 there was this switch of technology between traditional films and digital cameras. And it came with I guess an opportunity to do better with imagery that was purely digital from the get go, right.

Dr. Stewart Walker: I remember. I was present. There was a small event one afternoon at the USGS laboratory in I think it’s Reston, Virginia. Really I suppose celebrating the end of a glorious period where they had been calibrating people’s cameras for decades with a collimator system, and those days had come to an end. You’re absolutely right.

Philippe Simard: Yeah, that’s been interesting, yeah.

Dr. Stewart Walker: So why do you call the product Correlator3D?

Philippe Simard: You know, at the core of photogrammetry is correlation, right? So we were looking to have the word correlation somehow and 3D. Mind you, our product has been since then mostly based on 2 and a half D products, DSM, DTM. So we wanted something that would mix these two words together, correlation and 3D. So that’s how we came up with the word, like that.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Okay, could you maybe briefly sketch the history of your company? It’s about 22 years since it was founded. You were there at the beginning I guess with your brother Louis. How many people are there now? What milestones do you particularly remember?

Philippe Simard: Yeah, so as you said, I founded the company with my brother. I finished my PhD. He was working at the Canadian Space Agency, and he came along and we joined together to start a company. Within a year we won that big military contract that we just talked about. And basically it was development funds for developing the product and in parallel for the first five years in parallel of developing a commercial product, we were also selling processing services. So using whatever version we had at that point to crunch data. So we were crunching tens of thousands of images for a few clients that basically we’re sending the images.

So we did that until 2008, and then in 2008 we sold our first commercial license of Correlator 3D. And we completely switched then to an almost exclusively license-based model. So that version then, that first version 1.0 was for crunching large format imagery, like the Vexcel camera, for example, back then. A few years later, maybe two or three years later, we adapted the product for satellite imagery. We had a couple of clients requesting that kind of capability. And then when the drones came in around 2013, 2014 we adapted the software for that market. So nowadays 20 – almost 22 years later now, we crunch any imagery from any platform and yeah, I guess that gives you the major milestones.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Yes, indeed. Thank you. Have you continued offering processing services? Or has that completely gone?

Philippe Simard: I know we have it on our website. But it’s basically a very punctual project where some new clients that are not from photogrammetry or even mapping, this drone field has brought a lot of people that were outside of mapping into our mapping field. And quite often for the first couple of projects they feel less comfortable doing them themselves. Mind you sometimes they even have a license, and they want us to help them with a couple of projects.

So that’s really where we do these things. But they – I’d say it’s probably less than one or two percent of our revenue. So this is very small.

Dr. Stewart Walker: And now for a word from our sponsor, LAStools.

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Dr. Stewart Walker: So Philippe, let’s dig a little deeper into Correlator3D. You’ve already indicated that one of its beauties is that training is relatively fast. What else would you say was special about your software?

Philippe Simard: You know, it was always meant to be very fast. So we were the first in the industry to use GPUs. You know these gamer’s graphics cards to accelerate processing. So all our algorithms were designed to take into account that they would be run on these GPUs. So that’s something that you can do easily by just optimizing algorithms, the fundamentals of the product. I have to take that into account. So that’s – speed is really a key ingredient to our success and larger projects.

So in the large format business our typical clients, they will crunch, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 large format images in a matter of weeks. And when you bring that processing capability to the drone operators with smaller cameras, then all of a sudden – we have clients who have processed up to 250,000 frames in one single batch, in one project. So large projects, speed and as you mentioned, ease of use are still our three main advantage.

Dr. Stewart Walker: For those of us who’ve been in the industry a long time this is absolutely incredible. I was giving a presentation about bundle adjustment that’s history recently, and back in say the 1960s when people like Duane Brown were working on this, being able to process tens of images, even a hundred was thought to be miraculous.

Philippe Simard: Yes, and we’ve talked a little bit about competition. But the difficulty is exponential with the number of images. So processing 1,000 images versus 10,000 of images, if your product is not designed to handle correctly, processing times, memory, it basically explodes with the number of images. So the product has to be designed to take into account that you want to be able to crunch large datasets.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Yes, I think this gives some insight into your success. Because at that time many of your competitors were offering software that perhaps had had its roots back in the 1980s, late 1980s and had been refined and refined and refined. Whereas you’re going in leveraging GPUs from the very beginning.

Philippe Simard: Correct and we talked about my history. But seeing that the photogrammetry problem from a computer vision perspective allowed us to come up with very original concepts. All these equations that are in those photogrammetry (inaudible), which are only studied later on. The way to express the same problem from a computer vision field is very different. So it allows you to think differently and come up with unique and different solutions.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Yes indeed and those of us who have come from the traditional photogrammetric background with the collinearity equations and coplanarity conditions have struggled a little bit to understand the computer vision approach with its projective equations and essential matrixes and all that stuff. And I think people like Wolfgang Forstner and Konrad Schindler and their writings have tried to help us over that barrier.

Philippe Simard: They have and again, if I may in a nutshell explain maybe the difference the way I have explained it for years now. Traditional photogrammetry is a bottom up solution for most cases. So you’re basically looking at the pixels and trying to infer solution from your observation. So the pixel are the observation. You are using the observation to derive a solution. If you come from the computer vision field, it’s actually the opposite. You’re testing out possible solutions to see if they match the observation.

So if you are to build a 3D surface, instead of taking 2 pixels and calculating a 3D point, you would instead say, what if this 3D point was there? Would that explain what I’m looking at the images? So you see the completely different paradigm that it brings. The minimization techniques are very different if you solve the problem in that way. And again, if you put that onto 3D graphics card, which these cards were design to, to do 3D calculations, not 2D to 3D kind of stuff. So that basically facilitates the whole thing.

Dr. Stewart Walker: I remember something that was developed, it must have been in the ‘90s, maybe Purdue University, a thing called the vertical line locus. And that idea of guessing where there might be an intersection and then working out what best fitted the observations. I think people had the idea maybe but not in the generic computer vision way that you’ve described it.

Philippe Simard: Right.

Dr. Stewart Walker: In the early days did you have to have capabilities for scanned film imagery? Things like measuring the fiducial marks or ingesting camera calibration reports?

Philippe Simard: Yes we did have that, and interestingly enough we still have that today. So – and we still have clients who use our software for crunching traditional scanned films. And I guess your next question might be, but where are they come from? Well, say for Northern Canada, all they have for some of these remote places is imagery from the ‘60s, ‘70s, the ‘80s. So they want to use that as a higher resolution sort of database. Or else they want to use that older imagery to compare it with current imagery and see what has changed. Especially with everything that’s happening right now with (sounds like: our heart). So they’re still helpful in the way that they’re still around with many of these government clients we have.

Dr. Stewart Walker: I’ve maybe noticed another change that – in the early days products like yours and its competitors, they were quite focused on functionality for stereo compilation, collecting lines, points, areas stereoscopically, adding feature codes, maybe placing the results into CAD software, like AutoCAD or MicroStation. That used to be central. But now I think the emphasis is on author rectified imagery and elevation based deliverables. Is that stereo compilation functionality still significant?

Philippe Simard: It’s not in countries like the US or in Europe, et cetera. It’s still around in some of these companies as a quality check or quality control. Some of the traditional photogrammetrists will call it this way with 20, 30 years of this area, they still prefer to use the stereo plotters to validate the data. They are still used in other countries like China or India to come up with – for really the brute force approach for developing vectorized information and stuff. But I’d say on our continent and in Europe it has disappeared, and it’s less and less frequent that we see these kinds of equipment in the companies.

Dr. Stewart Walker: I agree entirely. Now I happened to notice, I was looking on the pricing page of your website, and there’s various references to image resolution up to 61 megapixels. But you can handle images, enormous images from cameras like the Vexcel Imaging ones and the ones from Leica Geosystems can’t you?

Philippe Simard: Yes we can. And I guess the 61 megapixel number that you are referring to is – so our pricing model is based on the sensor size that you are using. So up to 61 megapixel, you would quality for our cheapest option, a UAV license. Otherwise we have a 100 and then an unlimited version, which are more expensive. In the end it’s all the same product. It’s all the same functions. It’s just the pricing is based on the sensor size. Again, because of what I explained at the very beginning of our discussion. The problem of crunching imagery is exponentially harder as you up the size of images.

Dr. Stewart Walker: And that’s completely clear. I now understand that, thank you. So more than ten years ago the world of elevation generation from imagery was transformed because we had the arrival of semi-global matching, SGM occasioned by PhD work from Heiko Hirschmueller at the De Montfort University Lester in the United Kingdom. And then he worked a bit more when he was with Siemens and DLR in Germany. Did that semi-global matching affect you in any way?

Philippe Simard: In some ways. I know the word itself became some sort of famous because a couple of companies out there used it in their marketing efforts. The truth is, if you look at the photogrammetry problem, there’s probably 20 steps and this is only one of the 20 steps. Parts of it we used somehow, but again, because we are doing things so differently, it wasn’t that much of a significant improvement to what we were already doing. But I realize this was a breakthrough from the photogrammetry domain.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Yes, and I think another breakthrough has been the result of the enormous importance now of the use of UAV imagery, where the cameras are less expensive, may not be so well calibrated as the traditional large cameras carried in crude aircraft. And then also because the UAVs are maybe more subject to motion from wind and turbulence, the position and attitude is not as well known. And somehow you have to overcome that in order to perform triangulation. So it looks as if you made it through there.

Philippe Simard: Yes, and to add to all this, the attitude often is not known as opposed to these metric cameras that come with high EMU, and we have a precise value for (inaudible). I mean, there is no such thing quite often on drones. The camera itself, they’re not metric, and to top it off even if you try to calibrate them, you fly them the next day and the sun will warm them up, and all of a sudden the physics of their lens changes. So it is a big challenge to come from a metric system (sounds like: flown in a) very stable larger aircraft and then using a Styrofoam kind of step up with a cheap camera.

So we had to work quite hard to adjust our algorithms. I guess it boils down to two things. Pre-processing the data so that to make it less difficult to manage. Guess positions. Guess orientation. Guess distortion. And then having way more robust minimization algorithms to come up with a solution. So I guess the solution to that is twofold if you look from a software product point of view.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Now you’ve already mentioned processing satellite imagery. Do you use rigorous sensor models for that or generic rational functions?

Philippe Simard: We use generic rational, they do (inaudible) RPCs, because they’re – I mean, this is what normally people will come with, and that’s the norm. Mind you from our testing at the resolution these images are, RPCs for doing auto stuff is good enough in most cases.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Right, I agree. Obviously we’re LIDAR magazine. Our listeners are interested in what can be done with lidar data. So please tell us about the features in Correlator3D that are specifically aimed at lidar customers.

Philippe Simard: Yes, so we do not process the lidar data itself. But we are able to ingest it and use it along with the imagery. So our software I think is probably one of the few if not the only one to be able to take the imagery, use the lidar as a reference, because often the lidar is controlled itself. So basically we use the imagery and we align with the lidar during aerial triangulation.

So that allows you then to have a co-registered lidar imagery dataset. And from that you can colorize your point clouds or you can generate auto photos. But the key in our product is this ability to align the two source of information together.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Right, and would you say, particularly with respect to the UAV mapping world, more and more customers are using both. They’re using lidar and imagery together.

Philippe Simard: Yes they are. Yes, you are absolutely right. I mean, if there’s one buzzword in the last few years and you put lidar in some piece of – you know, we do lots of webinars and stuff, when we talk about lidar it draws so much attention. Which tells me that yes, it is of very much interest.

Dr. Stewart Walker: And you’ve also mentioned the prevalence of projects using relatively small images, 20 megapixels perhaps, maybe a little bigger. Is that commonplace now? Is that what a majority of your customers are doing?

Philippe Simard: That’s a good question. The truth is the standard nowadays is closer to 62 megapixels. That’s what – if you buy a drone today that’s probably what you’re going to be looking at, 50 megapixel, 60 something megapixel. But the truth is there are still lots of older drones out there that are still good to go and that use smaller imagery. So we use that because when people come to us, they started with a drone a couple of years ago. They want to scale up their production, scale up their business. And they are looking at bigger sensors, and with the bigger sensors comes the more efficient software to crunch.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Well, we’ve got a few minutes left. So let’s maybe talk a little bit more about your company and the business aspects. Do you finance everything from operations? Or do you have investors? You tend nowadays to think about investors and series A funding and all that as related to start ups. But you’re hardly a start up anymore.

Philippe Simard: We never went that route from the beginning. As I told you, our strategy was based to wining that big military contract which we did. That supported the development of our product. So – and after that we generated revenues enough to fuel our growth. So there was never financing. The company is owned by myself and my brother solely. And we reinvest a significant portion of our profits each year to improve the product, improve our team and make the company better.

Dr. Stewart Walker: So are you able to say how many employees you have?

Philippe Simard: Yes, so the team is about 30 people, and that’s interesting that you’re asking that because just before the pandemic the entire team was here in the offices in Montreal, which we still have actually. But then with the pandemic we went remote for a couple of years. We had no choice but to do that. And then we realized that it was giving us the ability to hire people outside of Montreal. So now the team is – half of it is from the province of Quebec. So Montreal or not so far from Montreal. We have people in the US, people in Europe and even in Asia. So that gives us a big advantage because it’s a – the photogrammetry market is small in itself if you are looking at just one country. You have to be global, and this whole team around the world means that if you call us any time of the day or night, someone will be able to answer you. So I’m really happy with that because we can serve our clients with people from their specific region, which is – as you know, you’ve worked in bigger companies. It’s a big advantage.

Dr. Stewart Walker: That’s right. I think the MVAs speak for that as a follow the sun model so that you can offer the support 24/7.

Philippe Simard: Correct.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Looking at the marketplace, do you concentrate on any particular verticals? Or do your customers really come from a whole host of applications?

Philippe Simard: You know, as you know, until the drones came in the industry, maybe ten years ago, it was solely surveilling mapping. This was the market for us. Our clients would sell to many verticals. But the drones have changed all this. Now we have a whole bunch of different people from a whole variety of verticals. So it is very much spread out I’d say. Oil and gas companies, forestry organizations, environmental protection agencies, name it, we have the whole range of it. And I think it’s due to the fact that drones have facilitated the democratization of photogrammetry, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Yes I completely agree, they have done that, and I think everyone has benefited. So coming almost full circle from something you said at the very beginning, would you say that the software is now so intuitive that training is not really very significant anymore? Or is it something that you have to do at the customer site?

Philippe Simard: Yeah, that’s an interesting question. Because if you go on our website you can download the trial version. You can use what we call an automated workflow. It’s basically a one button solution. It will produce a result that probably fits a novice guy in the business. But as your business evolves, as your project size becomes bigger, quite often our clients will reach to us and say, hey, I went from one camera to five cameras. I went from 1000 image a month to 100,000. Can you help us out? Define a new workflow to handle all of that production that’s coming to us.

So what you call training quite often is more of a – what we call them are workflow optimizations where basically the customer will share with us what they are trying to achieve, and we will provide them with the best workflow to help them with their production. So it’s not training per se, click here, click that. It’s more a thoughtful process where we’re involved with the client, looking at their workflow and how they can improve things.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Yes, you’ve put your finger on an important thing there. My experience visiting private sector surveilling and mapping companies, it’s all down to the smoothness of the workflow. The companies that can best link together all the different parts of the workflow with your software, other software, it doesn’t matter. They can link it together smoothly. They’re more likely to succeed.

Philippe Simard: Exactly, and in the end it’s all about the bottom line. So how is they can improve each small part to better handle their projects and predict what the bottom line will be and see how they could even improve it further.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Right. Now you’ve mentioned the informative webinars that you do, and I’ve looked at one or two of those. But do you organize user conferences to spread the word about new features, share your customer’s experiences and so on?

Philippe Simard: Yes, yes, we do. So we often do that through partners. So we have international resellers, and in each one of the markets we will typically do one such event in person. Again, since the pandemic we do those online classes or information sessions as well. So it’s a mix of both. But yes, it’s a complex field. Technology is changing very quickly, and we have no choice but to educate our users to how the market is evolving.

Dr. Stewart Walker: So you mentioned there international distributors. Do you bundle your software with products, for example, from UAV photogrammetry integrators or UAV lidar integrators?

Philippe Simard: Yes we do. An example is LiDAR USA, which I’m sure you know. They basically bundle our software with their lidar drone systems. But we have a whole range of different business partners, from the large format field, down to the drone business. There are different businesses out there, and we sell to them, yes.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Right, yes, I think we were both talking to Jeff Fagerman during the GEO week meeting in Denver recently.

Philippe Simard: Correct.

Dr. Stewart Walker: So we’ve talked about the marketplace in various ways. Maybe I should ask you about the geography. Are your customers localized? You said you have to be global. You are global. Do you have customers all over the world? Is there any particular geography?

Philippe Simard: Not really. I mean, I like to say that most governments of this world are our clients one way or another. So that’s really global. We have clients everywhere, Asia, Europe, Americas of course and such. So we’re really global. There are markets that are bigger, like the US is huge as you know But our business is really spread out around the world.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Right, and the marketplace itself, in terms of the players. Obviously there are companies like Vexcel Imaging, Trimble, especially its Info part, Hexagon, Cardinal Systems. They’re still very active. Whereas other players have probably fallen away over the years. How do you think it’s changed?

Philippe Simard: You know, the companies that you’ve mentioned are mainly involved – from my perspective, Vexcel is still in the large format business. They are less involved in the smaller drone world. There was (inaudible) Consolidation, Inpho was bought out and a whole bunch of other players happened the same. But yeah, I think there’s some sort of consolidation of the market players. I guess the idea is to offer a wider range of solutions, not just one piece of the solution.

Dr. Stewart Walker: And two players that I think all of us think about now in photogrammetry are Pix4D and Agisoft. The latter’s product is called Metashape. It used to be called PhotoScan. They’ve really made a huge difference in the last ten or fifteen years. Have you been affected by that in any way?

Philippe Simard: I think it helped us. Again, we think of our software, you mentioned this at the beginning, some of your colleagues called us the “Ferrari“. In a lot of cases we’re not the first car that you’re going to buy. You buy an entry level car, and then when you are ready to do serious stuff, scale up your business and stuff, that’s where clients come to us. So I’d say other products like Pix4D and Agisoft did help us in many ways to make the photogrammetry known. But the truth is sooner or later people come to us when they want to scale up.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Let me close by asking you what your aims are for the remainder of 2025? And also what are your longer term ambitions?

Philippe Simard: Well, you know, this year for us is going to be a banner year I think because we’ve decided to go into that 3D modeling stuff. I mentioned the product name at the beginning of our conversation. We’re going into that 3D modeling stuff. So there’s going to be a new version coming out in couple of weeks. And then subsequently improvements of that version. So that’s big for us. Software is going to be able to generate texturized 3D measures, which is really trending these days.

And from a longer term, I mean, my brother and I are still in our 40s. I’m late 40s. We get the question, when are you going to retire? We are having fun. Both of us have fun. So we want to keep growing the business. We want to keep having fun. So my grandfather went to the office until 92 every day, and then he was going there every other day until 98. So we just love what we do, and we want to keep doing it.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Okay, thank you. And I certainly had no thought whatsoever of asking you about retirement. That was not on my radar.

Philippe Simard: Thank you. {Laughs}

Dr. Stewart Walker: Thank you. Philippe Simard, thank you very much indeed. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation, and I’m very grateful that you were able to participate initiative the LIDAR magazine podcast. We now know a lot more about SimActive. We know more about the functionality of Correlator 3D in photogrammetry and in lidar.

Philippe Simard: Thank you Stewart. I really appreciate the opportunity again to talk to you today. I’ve enjoyed my time. Thank you.

Dr. Stewart Walker: Well, I’m sure listeners will similarly have enjoyed your company and comments today. I also want to underline our gratitude to our sponsor the popular LAStools lidar processing software. We hope that listeners will join us for forthcoming podcasts. We are expecting some guests whom we believe you will want to hear. And if you want to ask about our podcasts or make comments, don’t hesitate to write to us. Thank you for listening. Good day.

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